tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post115443452987275363..comments2023-11-02T09:08:09.242-07:00Comments on <i>Daddy Dialectic</i>: Mommy wars vs. daddy warsJeremy Adam Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11733669114207985920noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-90170828979145942552007-08-24T07:12:00.000-07:002007-08-24T07:12:00.000-07:00Hi Betsy. Thanks for stopping by. Based on a combi...Hi Betsy. Thanks for stopping by. <BR/><BR/>Based on a combination of personal experience and empirical research that I've read, I don't agree that SAHDs get more social approval than SAHMs. They do stand out more, I agree, and that triggers more comments, both positive and negative, but many SAHDs do not get much support. <BR/><BR/>Some do. They have supportive families and friends, they stand out in their community, and they might have personalities that allow them to overcome barriers between SAHMs and SAHDs. <BR/><BR/>And, of course, there is always the stray person who calls the SAHD a "pioneer" or "Superdad" and the like. It's nice to hear, but sometimes, to the ears of the dad, it sounds very patronizing. <BR/><BR/>Many dads simply don't let the negative or patronizing comments get them down. They hunker down and focus on the kid(s). Good for them.<BR/><BR/>But it's important to recognize that many SAHDs get a lot of shit from a lot of people. This is not to say that SAHMs don't, especially when it comes to re-entering the workforce. But I think most reasonable people would agree that a mom staying home is considered normal and healthy in our society, while a dad staying home is still considered suspicious by many people.<BR/><BR/>There's actually a flip side to this story which I don't think gets nearly enough attention: the burdens faced by breadwinning moms who work to support their husband and kids. In many ways, I think these women are much more alone than their husbands.Jeremy Adam Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733669114207985920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-8000230546786570472007-08-24T02:43:00.000-07:002007-08-24T02:43:00.000-07:00I think that you are missing out on the fact that ...I think that you are missing out on the fact that SAHD and involved fathers get much more positive feedback than mothers. When my son was born, my husband worked full-time and would change an occasional wet diaper or hold the little lad if I needed to get something done. Because he seemed to notice that he had a child, everyone credited him with being a great dad. Now that he is a SAHD while I get my PhD, he is labeled a 'Super Dad'. When I stayed at home, there was no such accolades. In fact, I think that in order to earn the title 'Super Mom' I would have to pull my own arm off and beat an assailant off my son or maybe lift a car off of him.<BR/>SAHM do not get praised much by anyone simply for being involved with their children -- it is expected and assumed. A dad who simply shows an interest is surpassing societal expectations and that is 'super'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1157331305322583312006-09-03T17:55:00.000-07:002006-09-03T17:55:00.000-07:00yourfireant, I was home full time with my daughter...yourfireant, I was home full time with my daughter for the first two years of her life; then her mom was home full time with her and then her brother for the next few years, and once little bro went to K'garten mom went back to school and then worked full time. <BR/><BR/>I do and have spent lots of time with them. I think it's not a big deal to them, there are lots of involved dads, lots of dads at their elementary school, and I think my daughter thinks it's cool I took care of her when she was a baby.<BR/><BR/>They were never confused. It was other people who at times had a problem with a dad caring full time for a baby.Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01503422107908380716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1156859249093581232006-08-29T06:47:00.000-07:002006-08-29T06:47:00.000-07:00Very interesting post. I am writing as a child no...Very interesting post. I am writing as a child now, and I would not've liked my father to be home all day. On the other hand,I would've liked him to stay around longer, but he died young. So, in retrospect I would've liked him to be around all day SOME of the time, though he did not have the oomph necessary to do it without a "work break". My mother was home when we were young, but she was running a business, looking after students who lived upstairs [two meals a day, all that laundry, etc.] for the first 7 or 8 years of my life. However, we were six kids in all, and tended to look after each other, which made my parents's busy life possible, or at least bearable. At least most of the time. Maybe.<BR/><BR/>I wonder, did your kids ever comment on your being home with them rather than their mother.YourFireAnthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428838843235292696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1154491840043533642006-08-01T21:10:00.000-07:002006-08-01T21:10:00.000-07:00This was a really great post, Chip. I just found i...This was a really great post, Chip. I just found it this evening. I'm a SAHM, one who has struggled with the competitive atmosphere of being a SAHM and who has found ways to stay out of it. (Mainly by not hanging out with the competitive SAHMs that I know.) I don't see SAHDs ever having to deal with that sort of thing for the reasons you describe. Plus, I agree that the competition goes back far beyond our modern-day construct of being a SAHM. It's because women have always been judged by their children--it's their "product" and so it becomes our identity and value in many people's minds. It's hard to fight against it. I'm glad that SAHDs don't deal with it as much--it's not fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1154460465436338412006-08-01T12:27:00.000-07:002006-08-01T12:27:00.000-07:00One more thing on atena's point that momming has a...One more thing on atena's point that momming has always been competitive. That is true, but I think what Warner is describing is way beyond any of the competitiveness among moms of my own mother's generations. They didn't mother in the ways Warner is describing. Though I'm very critical of much of Warner's argument, I do think that she has pointed to something that is qualitatively different compared to the past.Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01503422107908380716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1154460163305042502006-08-01T12:22:00.000-07:002006-08-01T12:22:00.000-07:00I understand both of your points. Yes, there has t...I understand both of your points. Yes, there has traditionally been isolation for SAHDs (glad you've seen that jeremy), but I don't think that's the major factor.<BR/><BR/>Men are definitely socialized in different ways than women are. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. And for a guy to become a SAHD he has to buck part of that socialization and fundamentally transform at least part of his own identity, and step away from the competitive status stuff. And for me anyway it was a major shift. I'd guess it is a significant adjustment for most guys.<BR/><BR/>So when SAHDs get together with each other, this different structure of gender identity will, I believe, lead to a different outcome.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't call it "rosy", because it's not rosy. It's just a reality as I've observed and experienced it.<BR/><BR/>I'd only add that I have experienced the SAHMs that are the type Warner describes, but I also know SAHMs who are not like that. The main difference that I see is that the latter have consciously rejected much of the dominant culture's values, as I noted in the post.Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01503422107908380716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23363296.post-1154447435747222142006-08-01T08:50:00.000-07:002006-08-01T08:50:00.000-07:00"No need to be the perfect overachieving dad. No n..."No need to be the perfect overachieving dad. No need to overschedule the kids, no need to compete with other dads (or moms)..."<BR/><BR/>I'd also factor in that many SAHDs find themselves on the outside, socially -- this is something discussed extensively elsewhere, and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence for the proposition that the social isolation of SAHDs is real, not imagined (I've had my mind changed about this; I used to think the isolation was primarily a product of SAHD insecurity). This almost certainly reduces social pressures of all kinds -- for many guys, it's just them and their kids all day, and, if they're lucky, a few relatives and a couple of friends. There are few daddy groups, etc. and almost nothing in the way of positive and negative role models and media images.Jeremy Adam Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733669114207985920noreply@blogger.com